Legislature(2007 - 2008)BELTZ 211
02/09/2008 01:30 PM Senate LABOR & COMMERCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HJR25 | |
| SB120 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HJR 25 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 120 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HJR 25-SUPPORTING RIGHT TO FORM LABOR UNIONS
1:33:47 PM
CHAIR ELLIS announced HJR 25 to be up for consideration.
PETER FELLMAN, staff to Representative John Harris, sponsor of
HJR 25, said there is no doubt that unions and corporate labor
is a hotly debated subject, and both sides are right to some
degree. It's easy to show that corporations have intimidated,
harassed and threatened employees who have considered joining
unions. Examples of that exist today. On the other hand it's
easy to show that past unions have engaged in some of the same
tactics. "It's history."
He said there are good examples of honorable companies that pay
fair wages and treat their employees fairly and with good
benefits. Unions have also negotiated good, fair contracts for
people that needed representation.
MR. FELLMAN stated:
Members of the committee, you know, if we lived in a
perfect world and people gave a fair days work and
received a fair wage for that work, we wouldn't have
this debate. Our concern on the other hand is for the
working people. You know, some of those folks may not
have the ability, the capability or the tools at hand
to make sure that they can support themselves, and
that they will have support from their employer or
their employee relations.
1:36:53 PM
He related how the Iron Workers Union taught his son a good
trade and that he admires what the labor unions do for people.
On the other hand, he is a small business owner and he has never
been in a situation where he has had someone come to him with a
concern and because he didn't address it, threaten him with
union activity. Going through that process would be very serious
and stressful for him.
CHAIR ELLIS asked if he supported the resolution.
MR. FELLMAN answered yes.
VINCE BALTRAMI, President, Alaska AFL-CIO, said President Bush
has threatened to veto this resolution if it passes Congress.
The reason it was introduced is because the National Labor
Relations Board (NLRB) elections are largely perceived to be a
broken process. A lot of misconceptions exist about what the
bill would do, but it doesn't take away the right for a group of
people to have an election (secret ballot) if they so choose.
On the other hand, he explained, the National Labor Relations
Board process is not like any other election process that people
go through when they go to the polls, go behind a booth and
check a box for a candidate or bond. That never has the same
kind of coercion or negative outcome associated with casting
that ballot.
1:40:49 PM
MR. BALTRAMI explained the way union elections work now is when
employees sign an authorization card and put the election
process in motion, if it's successful, that gives them the right
to have a labor organization sit down with them and negotiate a
contract. When the petition has been filed and a campaign has
begun, however, is when a lot of things start happening - like
discrimination, firing and intimidation. It's very unlike what
happened when the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) was first
put into place in 1935. The Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA) is
an attempt to try to put a little more control back into the
hands of the employees for whom the NLRA was created.
He explained that under National Labor Relations Board (NLRB)
procedure, it takes more than 30 percent of employees signing an
authorization card to get the process of going. The EFCA says if
more than 50 percent of the employees sign authorization cards,
that, in fact, is the election. Upon verification of the
signatures, the employees would sit down with the employer who
would be committed to bargaining with them. Today, after a
successful election, employees can go for years without getting
a contract through the employer's stalling tactics.
If this bill passes, it would require the employer and the union
to come to an agreement within 120 days; if they didn't, it
would go to mediation or arbitration. He said if 30 percent of
employees still wanted a secret ballot election, it would still
be available under this bill.
1:44:34 PM
SENATOR STEVENS said he understands that no one can force an
employee to vote one way or the other in a secret ballot; that
is democracy at work. He asked him to explain, however, how
signing an authorization card in front of someone was an
improvement on the system.
MR. BALTRAMI explained that today if people want to have an
election to get organized, at least 30 percent of them have to
sign the authorization cards. People who sign those cards do so
willingly, but the difference that this bill makes is that it
says those signatures could constitute the election. When he was
a union organizer, he related that he wouldn't go forward with a
petition without at least 60 or 70 percent of the employees
signing authorization cards because intimidation tactics would
be used against them.
He said voting to organize is not like any other secret ballot
election process. People are not subject to any kind of
intimidation, harassment or firing for regular elections, but
all those tactics are used today in almost every single NRLB
election process.
MR. BALTRAMI stated that the authorization card process the EFCA
would allow is one that a lot of employers have lived up to
voluntarily. Cingular Wireless is the biggest example, where if
a majority of its employees at any property sign these
authorization cards, Cingular recognizes that and goes
immediately to the bargaining process.
SENATOR STEVENS said that Mr. Baltrami didn't answer his
question and repeated, if an employee has to sign a card in
front of a union representative, the element of secrecy has been
lost.
MR. BALTRAMI explained that authorization cards have been
voluntarily signed by employees and given to the union organizer
the same way since 1935 and that won't change.
1:49:30 PM
TOM BRICE, Alaska District Council Laborers, supported HJR 25.
He explained that sometimes people view the unions as an outside
entity coming in, but that is not true. The employees,
themselves, are signing a petition saying they want a contract.
CHAIR ELLIS asked if his understanding was the same as Mr.
Baltrami's, that nothing would change about revealing peoples'
identities.
MR. BRICE answered that the point Mr. Beltrami was trying to
make is once those cards are signed and presented to the labor
relations board, the employer has an idea who has signed them.
The employer can then try to get those cards thrown out or talk
with those employees in closed door sessions and use certain
tactics to influence that employee's voice. In 1992/93, the
Fairbanks Fred Meyer's did that to its workers when they tried
to organize. Just recently in Juneau, Wal-Mart had closed-door
meetings where employees were required to come in and sit down
and listen to three or four hours of anti-union propaganda. They
were paid for the time, but people who did not attend weren't
hired. He said that having a signed card serve as the vote would
minimize that length of time the employer has to try to
influence an employee's decision.
1:52:50 PM
SENATOR STEVENS said he still had trouble understanding what is
wrong with having a secret election.
MR. BRICE answered the point is that after the cards are signed,
there is no secrecy. The employer has the ability to know who
those employees are and can try to unduly influence them through
intimidation and coercion. The EFCA says if over half the
employees have indicated by signing a card they want to join a
union, then they have made their voice heard and that serves as
the election. Employees should be able to go straight to
negotiations at that point.
1:54:37 PM
MR. BALTRAMI added when the authorization cards are given to a
union organizer, they are sealed and go to the NLRB. The names
of the people who signed the cards are not revealed, but they
can be discovered when the company provides a list of those
employees to the board to confirm that they are, in fact,
employees in the proper bargaining unit.
1:56:33 PM
DENNY DEWITT, Alaska Director, National Federation of
Independent Business, said he didn't understand the full context
of HR 800, but he had some concerns with moving away from the
secret ballot. His concern was that currently, 30 percent or
more of the employees can sign an authorization card and then
can have a secret ballot election. But many folks, when
presented with a card, might get a little pressure from
colleagues to sign the card. However, when they have a secret
ballot option, they can truly reflect on how they believe an
issue ought to go. That's why elections traditionally are by
secret ballot.
As he understands it, Mr. DeWitt said, this measure makes 50
percent of employees publically signing an authorization card
the election. It's another bit of pressure that is also
inappropriate. He thought it was appropriate for 51 percent of
Cingular's employees to sign cards and then go to negotiations,
and the law wouldn't need to be changed.
Another concern he had was that the bill had a lot of things in
it that no one knew about and going forward with that was just
poor public policy.
2:00:09 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HARRY CRAWFORD said he used to work as a union
organizer and many times he was able to get 75 - 80 percent of
employees on non-union jobs to sign the cards, but the actual
NLRB vote would be delayed so that people could be worked on.
People who were union supporters were laid off or fired and the
vote would be delayed so long that the job would be over before
the election happened. In all his years as a union organizer, he
stated that he was never able to actually get to the point of
having an election.
2:01:58 PM
SENATOR STEVENS said he understood that, but asked if there is
recourse other than changing the law if someone is fired because
he wanted to unionize.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied that he was fired for trying to
organize by the company that was expanding FedEx at the airport.
He actually got a few weeks back pay about three years later,
because he had proof of what happened, but all the other people
who sided with the union didn't get anything.
SENATOR THOMAS said that most people discuss the authorization
card with their significant other or another colleague before
signing it. He found that the timeframe it takes to get to the
election the real concern, because that is when there is usually
a fair amount of intimidation by the employers.
2:05:18 PM
He knew of that happening at Prudhoe Bay when an election time
was set. Then the only way to appear you were not in favor of
unionization was to not show up on the day of the election.
There is a great disparity between the number of people who sign
the authorization cards and the number who actually show up to
vote.
2:07:34 PM
CHAIR ELLIS closed public testimony and held the bill for
further consideration.
SENATOR DAVIS said she supported HR 800 and wanted to know where
it was now and why it wasn't referred to the Speaker of the
House.
2:08:32 PM
MR. FELLMAN answered that HR 800 passed the House, but not the
Senate. He would have to check on why this resolution wasn't
referred to the Speaker of the House.
SENATOR STEVENS said he was concerned that HJR 25 covered other
issues that hadn't been discussed.
MR. FELLMAN commented that was not his understanding.
CHAIR ELLIS set the resolution aside.
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